"Tout le monde connaît le nom du Vengeur, combien peu connaissent celui du Redoutable!" -- Auguste Jal, 1867 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
in work: La Belle POF 1/36 Le Redoutable POF 1/48 ; 74-Gun Temeraire-Class by Jacques-Noël Sané Bucentaure, POF 1/48; 80-Gun Bucentaure/Tonnant-Class by Jacques-Noël Sané (Projektierungsphase)
ich habe das mal mit einem Toaster gehört, manche haben diese Bügel zum Aufwärmen von Brötchen, auf denen ein dünnes Metallgitter aufgelegt ist. Ich hielt es bisher für einen Aprilscherz.
Im MSW-Forum wurde dieses Tempern schon vor einiger Zeit diskutiert und jemand hat mit den Gütermann-Garnen versucht eine optimale Temperatur zu finden.
Ich könnte mir vorstellen, daß ein Umluftofen die beste Option ist, da es darauf ankommt, das Tauwerk gleichmäßig über eine Temperatur und Zeit hin zu erwärmen. Strahlungswärme, so wie sie von einem Toaster oder Grill produziert wird, könnte das Material lokal zu stark erwärmen.
Beim extrudieren der Kunstfaserfäden entstehen wohl interne Spannungen, die das Material in seine Ausgangsform zurückfedern lassen und die durch das Erwärmen abgebaut werden. Das Material fügt sich dann in die Spirale, in die es durch das Verseilen gezwungen worden war.
Ich muß das auch mal mit meinen Veevus- und Caenis-Fliegenbindegarnen ausprobieren.
Nach dem Drillen gehe ich mit einem in stark verdünnten Weißleim getauchten Lappen über die noch eingespannten Taue und warte mit dem Abnehmen, bis sie trocken sind.
Dann ziehe ich die geschlagenen Taue unter einem Dampfbügeleisen, Volle Hitze, voller Dampf, ein Tuch dazwischen, durch. Es verklebt nicht die Litzen, also Leim muss noch an die Schnittstelle. Aber die Taue sind entspannt und drillen sich nicht mehr selber.
Uwe vom Dunkelwald (lat.: Miriquidi)
Mitglied des Phantomprojektes Recherche: Fleute Zeehaen Kiellegung: Golden Hinde Fertiggestellt: Die Kolumbusflotte
Ich habe das gerade in einem Thread im AK-Forum gepostet, mache es hier aber auch nochmal als "Reminder/These" für mich :-D
"So, ich habe heute eine Menge an Standardbüchern gewälzt, bei Boudriots 74er einen kleinen Fehler gefunden (in der englischen Übersetzung wird "with" und "against the sun" vertauscht) und einen "Schuldigen" gefunden.
Ich unterlag auch jahrelang dem "Mythos", das Wanten englischer und amerikanischer Schiffe (mit denen hatte ich mich beschäftigt) in der Regel links geschlagen sind. Quatsch (ich bin da echt nicht mehr sicher aber zeitgenössische Modelle verwirren da auch). Links geschlagen ist nur Kabelschlag und solche Taue wurden, Wissenstand jetzt, eher sehr sehr selten als Wanten verwendet (wenn wohl auch nur bei sehr großen Schiffen). Regel für Wanten ist der .. warum heißt er wohl so .. Wantschlag, also 4 Duchten mit Seele rechts geschlagen.
Mein "Problem" war der Schrage, der leider Wanten gerne links geschlagen gezeichnet hat (z.B. Tafel 26 & 27) aber nicht so, dass es als Kabelschlag erkennbar war.
Verzeiht die Verwirrung .. ich habe aber was gelernt :-D"
Trossenschlag == Z-Schlag == Rechts geschlagen aus drei Duchten == Right Handed == Laid with the sun (... laut Young Sea Officer's Sheet Anchor) == Hawser Laid Rope Kabelschlag == S-Schlag == Links geschlagen == Left Handed == Laid against the sun Kabel == S-Schlag == Links geschlagen aus drei Trossen (Kardeele) == Cable Laid Rope, Left Handed == Laid against the sun Wantschlag == 4 Duchten mit Seele rechts geschlagen == Shroud Laid == Laid with the sun == vierschäftiges Tau
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Rope.—Ropes are of three kinds; three-strand, four-strand, and cable-laid. A number of yarns twisted together forms & strand. Three-strand rope (see Fig. 212) is laid right-handed, or with the sun (sometimes termed hawser-laid). Four-strand rope (see Fig. 213) is also laid with the sun (sometimes termed strand-laid). Four-Strand rope is usually used for sheets and shrouds, pennants, and generally for standing rigging. All rope comes under the general term of cordage. Cable-laid rope (see Fig. 214) oonsists of three "three-strand" right-hand laid ropes laid up together into one; these ropes are laid left-handed against the sun. Right-hand laid rope must be coiled with the sun; cable-laid rope is coiled against the sun.
"With the Sun, or with the Sun's shadow, is clockwise."
"But the description depends on which part of the process you are talking about. If you are holding a handful of fibers, facing a crank, and the crank is turning clockwise (to the right), the bundle will get a Z twist, as shown in Figure 2.7 (left), above. If, on the other hand, the hook is stationary, and you are twisting the bundle of fibers clockwise (to the right) with your hand, the fibers get an S twist. You do not have to look very far to find a Z twist described as right twist, and left twist, and clockwise and anticlockwise. [495]
Older texts talk of ropes laid "with the Sun". The Sun rises in the East and sets in the West, and its shadow on a sundial travels West to East. Clocks were designed so the hour hand mimics the motion of the gnomon's shadow. With the Sun, or with the Sun's shadow, is clockwise. But as just noted, clockwise can have two meanings when twisting fibers.
Shakespeare (1564 – 1616) mentions clocks frequently in his plays but the fact is, in the American Colonies, in the late 1700s, clocks were still fairly rare. According to the Oxford English dictionary, the word "clockwise" did not exist until after 1800. If you said the word "clock", to a Scottish immigrant in the 18th Century, you would be understood to be talking about a "cloak", or the noise a chicken makes - "cluck", or one of several large beetles. [260]
So if you are holding the loose ends of the fibers and want an S twisted yarn, then the crank has to turn counter clockwise, from your point of view. But if you are giving instructions to the person turning the crank, you have to reverse your instructions since they are facing the crank from the other direction. From their perspective, they have to turn the crank clockwise. Unless the crank they are turning is driving the hooks with gears. But that depends on how the gears are arranged....
It is easier to just show your cranker which direction to crank by making big hand circles."
*********************************** *** Steel Cites related to rope *** ***********************************
S.54 "CABLES, ropes made of nine strands, that are nine inches and upwards in circumference."
S.55 "HAWSERS, ropes made of three or four single strands. When made of four strands it is called shroud-laid, and is used in merchant-ships."
"HEART, a strand slack twisted, used in some four-strand ropes it is run down the middle, to fill the vacancy that would otherwise occur, and thereby forms a round. It is best hawser-laid."
S.61 "STAY-ROPES have four strands, with a heart running through the middle, which keeps the rope true; and, when hawser-laid, as a rope, prevents it from stretching, and the strands have each their proper bearing. The stays are made of fine yarn, spun from the best topt hemp. Twenty threads a-hook make a rope 3 inches in circumference, and so in proportion for any size. The yarn is warped to the length and size for the stay wanted. The strands are warped long enough for one strand to make two, when hauled about and hung upon the back-hook. By this an eye is left for the upper-end of the stay to go through and form a collar to go over the mast-head.
For stays of 9 inches in circumference, each strand should be 3 inches and a half, and so in proportion. The heart must be near the size of the strand, or the rope will not lie round and true.
Particular attention should be paid in making the stays, as on them the safety of the mast, &c. greatly depends.
Main, fore, and mizen, topmast, and some topgallant-mast, stays are cable-laid."
S.62 "TILLER-ROPE is made of fine white 25-thread yarn, untarred, and contains 3 or 4 strands, with or without a heart. It is laid harder than other ropes."
"Ropes, from 2 inches to the largest size, for running rigging, are hawser-laid, and made of 3 strands on a sledge: these take more hardening and closing than those made on a wheel, and, when laid, stand 120 to 130 fathoms. They should be short-laid, a good hard kept up before, and the hook or wheel turned briskly about behind; but it depends much on the judgement of the layer."
"Deep-sea lines are hawser-laid; hand lead-lines, marline, house and sean lines, sean-ropes, and hammock-lines, are made from groundtows or inferior hemp dressed down to shorts, and what comes from it makes oakum."
S.64 "Deep-sea lines, for the royal navy, are of 12 threads, hawser-laid. Eighty-five fathoms weigh 14 pounds.
Deep-sea lines of 12 threads, hawser-laid, are generally for exportation. They have 3 strands, 4 threads in a strand, spun 160 yards, and stand 60 fathoms, which weigh 12 pounds."
S.66 "For Stays, Tacks, Sheets, and Buoy-Ropes, which are Cable-laid, allow the same Length as is shewn for Yarn in the Tables for Cables, which shew how many Fathoms and Feet of Yarn will make a Fathom of Cable, from 1 to 120 Fathoms."
S.163 "CABLET. Any cable-laid rope under nine inches in circumference"
S.170 "MESSENGER. A cable-laid rope, used to heave in the cable."
S.186 "All shrouds are wormed with double spun-yarn, one-fourth the length from the center to the eye, on each side; but the fore-leg of the foremost pair is wormed all the way to the end.
Each length after being wormed, is hove out by the same purchase, till each pair has acquired, by stretching, once and a half the length of the eye; and should remain on that stretch twenty-four hours before the service is laid on.
Shrouds are wormed before they are hove out to lengthen, because the worming of cable-laid ropes encreases, in tension, with the rope; and thereby draws smooth and even into the cuntline."
S.187 "BOWSPRIT-SHROUDS are made of cable-laid rope. They have an iron hook and thimble spliced in the inner ends, and are served over the splice."
S.190 "STAY is cable-laid in large ships, and hawser-laid in small ones. The latter has an eye spliced in the upper end to the circumference of its mast-head, and served with spunyarn over the splice. The cable-laid is fitted with a collar, and moused, as any other stay."
S.198 "DEAD-EYES are then turned into the lower end of the shrouds, left-handed, (being cable-laid rope,) with a throat-seizing clapt on close to the dead-eye, and above that a round seizing crossed, and the end of the shroud whipt with spun-yarn, and capped with canvas well tarred."
S.231 "FENDERS are made of worn cable-laid rope, doubled three or four times, and sewed together with spunyarn thus: the rope is first doubled, and a laniard thrust through the bight, and a wall-knot crowned on the end: the ends are then brought up in the bight, and the four parts sewed together."
Ich bin ein wenig verwirrt durch die beiden orange markierten Zitate. Das klingt so, als ob bei Handelsschiffen die Wanten mit Wantschlag (Shroud-Laid) also rechts geschlagen realisiert wurden während Kriegsschiffe grundsätzlich mit dem (teureren) links geschlagenen Kabelschlag versehen wurden. Damit wäre meine Aussage in #295 obsolet. Was denkt ihr?
The young sea officer's sheet anchor - Darcy Lever - 1808
S.1 "A proportion of yarns (covered with tar) are first twisted together. This is called a Strand; three or more of which being twisted together, form the rope: and according to the number of these strands, it is said to be either Hawser-laid, Shroud-laid, or Cable-laid."
S.2 "A HAWSER-LAID ROPE, Fig. 1, Is composed of three single strands, each containing an equal quantity of yarns, and is laid right-handed, or what is termed with the sun. A SHROUD-LAID ROPE, Fig. 2, Consists of four strands of an equal number of yarns, and is also laid with the sun. A CABLE-LAID ROPE, Fig. 3, Is divided into nine strands of an equal number of yarns : these nine strands being again laid into three, by twisting three of the small strands into one. It is laid left-handed, or against the sun.
S.22 "SHROUDS sometimes are cable-laid ; but they are now generally shroud or hawser-laid. (See page 2). They are taken round two fids, or short posts (a, c, Fig. 164)."
"Near the end of each pair of shrouds, a dead-eye is turned in, with a throat-seizing, (see page 9): left-handed, if cable-laid,, right-handed, if hawser-laid. In the latter case, the ends of the shrouds will lie forwards, on the larboard side, and aft, on the starboard side. Fig. 167 represents a dead-eye on the starboard side, and the inner side of the deadeye. The end part of the shroud (i) is stopped to the standing part (k), by two round seizings (see page 9): the end is whipped, and a piece of canvas, tarred, is put over it, called a cap (1)."
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Kedge Anchor - William Brady - 1847
84.—NAMES OF ROPES. The different kinds of ropes are designated as follows :— Hawser-laid and cable-laid rope is all the same ; it is composed of nine strands, each strand having an equal number of yarns. These nine strands are laid into three, by twisting three small ones into one large one ; then the three large ones are laid up, 6r twisted together left-handed, which makes the nine strands ; this is a hawser-laid, or cabled, rope. A common or plain rope is composed of three strands, of an equal number of yarns twisted together. Shroud-laid rope is made in the same manner, only that it consists of four strands instead of three, and a small strand which runs through the middle, termed the heart of the rope. When plain-laid rope is laid up left-handed, it is called back-laid rope. There is also four stranded hawser-laid rope, which is used for stays, &c. &c.
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30.07.2021 16:07 (zuletzt bearbeitet: 30.07.2021 16:08)
