um 1600 englische Galleone _ Airfix - 1:72 Golden Hind - PLASTIC - conversion to 406 ton Elizabethan galleon in 1:100 scale

Dear friends ,
Finally, I got around to assembling another galleon kit in pair with its Spanish counterpart.
This time it will be an English, Elizabethan galleon based on the famous model of the English galleon Elizabeth Jonas 1598 https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.or...-representation
The donor will be a set from Airfix "Golden Hind 1578, 1:72". I changed the set scale to 1:100.
On this scale, the length along the keel will be
23 cm (actually 23 meters),
maximum width 7.92 cm (actually 7.92 meters)
hold depth 4.7 cm (actually 4.7 meters)
With these dimensions the capacity would be 305 tons and total 405.6 tons (increased by 1/3).
For comparison, the dimensions of the Elizabeth Jonas galleon are 684/855 tons.
In the pictures, for the sake of interest, I indicated some overall dimensions and models 1:100 and on a scale of 1:1... in principle, on this scale, everything is easy to recalculate.
Another picture shows these two ships, a reconstruction of the Elizabeth Jonas (100 ft keel) and a set of plastic Golden Hind (76 ft keel) compared in real size, so to speak.
On a sheet of paper, for convenience, I made a drawing by hand, on a scale of 1:100; in the drawing, the body of the model with the changes already made:
*beackhead lowered by approximately 7 mm
*stern railing reduced in height
*small changes in the location of the wales in the bow
*added gun ports
*out of interest, I showed the approximate location of the decks, what it might look like, based on the developments of Peter Kirsch and a drawing from a book unknown to me/a fragment posted by one of our colleagues.
*extended the quarterdeck deck with the bulkhead moved
*showed the location of the masts - a Bonaventure mast was added...
In principle, the main overall dimensions are determined. The silhouette of the hull of this set looks too high, with an inter-deck distance of almost 2 meters, which could hardly be the case in reality. I will not make any fundamental changes to the geometry of the hull, so the model will be purely for interior with no claims to historical authenticity.
Nevertheless, I will try to depict all the little details of the deck armament, spar, and rigging in as much detail as I can manage.

Dear All, Good day!
A few last days were spent for playing and combining at one place pictures of Elizabethian galleon's decorations downloaded from internet for finding out suitable "decor" elements for this "Elizabethian- English" galleon ...
As You could see , all findings presented on the pictures posted bellow, please consider all of these just as kind of concept for making model , how decoration could be looks like when it will be placed on the model, but don't consider that all shown colors on these drawings will be actually presented the same presented on the model...
they all will be adjusted later on for the uniform levels colors of the model style , if I could say that...
Presently, many fragments of the decoration just were pulled out from many sources and just directly placed on the drawing to see how it will works on the model style drawing suitable for Elizabethians galleon? ...
By the way,
If you could see, there is a kind of joke , when I was placed a faces of famous Elizabethian's navy officers taken from ancient tapestry in the frames instead of original canonic faces which most probably should be placed here based on ancient artists pictures ... see attached ...

Wish all of you All the Best!!!

Hallo Kirill!
Wie immer hast du ein sehr interessantes Projekt, und ich werde die Entwicklung des Themas mit großem Interesse verfolgen. Ich möchte dir den Namen eines Modells vorschlagen, das von den Abmessungen her am besten zu dem Galeon Swiftsure passt, der 1573 von Meister Peter Pett gebaut wurde. Der erste Umbau erfolgte 1592 durch denselben Meister, und der nächste Umbau fand 1607 unter der Leitung von Matthew Baker statt. Zu dieser Zeit wurde das Schiff in Speedwell umbenannt, welches 1624 in der Nähe von Vlissingen Schiffbruch erlitt. Der Galeon hatte folgende Abmessungen:
Länge: 74 Fuß (23 m) (Kiel)
Breite: 30 Fuß (9,1 m)
Tiefgang: 15 Fuß (4,6 m)
Diese Abmessungen beziehen sich auf 1592, die ursprünglichen Abmessungen sind unbekannt, aber sie wichen nach dem Umbau normalerweise nicht stark ab. Dieses Schiff hat eine reiche Geschichte und ist mit der englischen Flotte zweier Epochen verbunden.

Hi Kirill!
As always, you have a very interesting project, and I will follow its development with great interest. I would like to suggest a name for the model, which, in terms of size, best fits the galleon Swiftsure, built in 1573 by master Peter Pett. The first rebuild took place in 1592 by the same master, and the next rebuild occurred in 1607 under the supervision of Matthew Baker. At that time, the ship was renamed Speedwell, which was shipwrecked in 1624 near Vlissingen. The galleon had the following dimensions:
Length: 74 ft (23 m) (keel)
Beam: 30 ft (9.1 m)
Depth of hold: 15 ft (4.6 m)
These dimensions are from 1592; the original dimensions are unknown, but they typically did not differ significantly after the rebuild. This ship carries a rich history and is associated with the English fleet of two eras.

Good day Eugen!
Thank You very much for Your attention!
Your remarks are very value for me!
Sorry for my stupid questions, but Please, on this picture... could You be so kind to indicate by hand drawing , where are all these positions need to be presented
like L - B - D ( hold ) which are used for calculation tonnage? Or all these abriviation which You used L,W,D in one of your above comments?
Funny things, on the Elizabeth Jonas drawing I was able to find only the lenght of the keel which mutched stated parameters of 100 ft, but I did'nt find stated dimensions of B and D... which mentioned on the museum drawing of EJ...so, presently for me it is still not understandable how they calculated stated tonnage of Elizabeth Jonas...?
Sorry again for these questions... :)))
Ps
Actually there are two questions... on the drawing of plastic modrl and on the museum drawing of EJ ... wherecare all these L-B-D need to be taken from?
PPS
Are they correct, those L-B-D dimensions which I marked on the drawing of GH (Airfix)model ?
f274t9750p229453n2_LcKMPGsI (1).jpg - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte) ?

Good day ,
Dear friends,
Here is my final version of decoration for this model - decorative elements and their composition were borrowed from different art sources.

Zitat von kirill4 im Beitrag #4

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Good day Eugen!
Thank You very much for Your attention!
Your remarks are very value for me!
Sorry for my stupid questions, but Please, on this picture... could You be so kind to indicate by hand drawing , where are all these positions need to be presented
like L - B - D ( hold ) which are used for calculation tonnage? Or all these abriviation which You used L,W,D in one of your above comments?
Funny things, on the Elizabeth Jonas drawing I was able to find only the lenght of the keel which mutched stated parameters of 100 ft, but I did'nt find stated dimensions of B and D... which mentioned on the museum drawing of EJ...so, presently for me it is still not understandable how they calculated stated tonnage of Elizabeth Jonas...?
Sorry again for these questions... :)))
Ps
Actually there are two questions... on the drawing of plastic modrl and on the museum drawing of EJ ... wherecare all these L-B-D need to be taken from?
PPS
Are they correct, those L-B-D dimensions which I marked on the drawing of GH (Airfix)model ?
?

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Good day Eugen,
Thank You for attention,
The plastic model hull has these parameters in original, as Golden Hind, as stated scale 1:72 :
As indicated on the drawing above
L the length along the keel is 23 cm ,
B maximum width is 7.92 cm
D hold depth is 4.7 cm

In my conversion, I used scale 1:100 ... in this case, all these" cm's "will be directly converted into" meters " :)

All the Best!
Kirill

Zitat von kirill4 im Beitrag #7

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Good day Eugen,
Thank You for attention,
The plastic model hull has these parameters in original, as Golden Hind, as stated scale 1:72 :
As indicated on the drawing above
L the length along the keel is 23 cm ,
B maximum width is 7.92 cm
D hold depth is 4.7 cm

In my conversion, I used scale 1:100 ... in this case, all these" cm's "will be directly converted into" meters " :)

All the Best!
Kirill

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Good day Eugen,
Thank You very mutch for your reply ,
For me is not clear, when we are talking about calculation of tonnage, which figures we have to use , in case of talking about depth of the hold? or draft?
In my understanding these two figures, depth of the hold or draft , they are different .... draft , as I could understand - it is how deep vessel is sitting in the water,loaded by amunitions and provision supplies, but depth of the hold ...it is depth of the hold...which is fixed parameter.?
Just in one parts of Your remark You are talking about depth and in another - about draft...?
It is not clear for me, where this figure of depth of the hold need to be taken from the drawing?
Please clarifire my doubts.
All the best!
Kirill

Hello Kirill,

that was my mistake, I meant Tiefe/depth of hold.
view picture...

Screenshot 2024-06-30 092906.png - Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)

Good day,
Eugen,
Thank You,
That's what I need... I will check my drawings as well, it is just interesting...but this "Depth of the hold "which You mentioned , is this distance between gun deck beams and floors of the keel ?
Wish You all the best!
Kirill

Hallo Kirill,
Ich habe alles nachgemessen und entsprechend angepasst. Alle Werte basieren auf dem Manuskript von 1620.
Wenn wir dann alle Daten ausrechnen, erhalten wir 234 tons burden.
75×25×12,5÷100=234 tons burden.
Viele Grüße

Hello Kirill,
I have remeasured everything and adjusted accordingly. All values are based on the manuscript ca. 1620.
When we calculate all the data, we get 234 tons burden.
75×25×12.5÷100=234 tons burden.
Best regards

Good day Eugen,
Sorry for delay with my many thanks for your attention and time You spent for correction!
This is clear evidance that kit maker didn't follow shipbuilding practice and this galleon kit became a little bit/ or maybe not a little at all , out of correct proportions for galleon... it turned out to be too tall in hull sides and too big in holds depth... hm...
but ok, now we know thanks for Your drawing with corrected figures, how it should be looks like! ...
by the way, if we place these two pictures of galleon Elizabeth Jonas reconstruction and this galleon kit , and to scale them to the similar figures, we could see than, that Elizabeth Jonas reconstruction looks more historicaly correctly if I could say that...
In attached drawings I shown scaled 1:100 dimensions of this kit and drawing with Your corrections for comparison

Meanwile,
During past months I was more or less busy with some visualization, in respect how I want this model must looks like... first alternations someone could see in the begining of these posts, and here some more pictures of changes or alternations in my vewing of it...
There were many variations and I would like to show you small retrospection and final result for this moment, balcony decor and ships side decor completed, I m planning now how to complete heraldic sturn shield ...

Good day,
Dear Community,
I would like to bring to your attention a few versions of the sturn decorations, personaly I like No4, but would like to hear your opinion as well